tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post2096793873847466136..comments2023-10-11T09:41:19.089+02:00Comments on Philosophical Comment: A Moral Theory of Online "Hate" Harassment and AttacksChristian Munthehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03373442927438898939noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-50072145986627038692014-01-10T22:29:36.705+01:002014-01-10T22:29:36.705+01:00What's up with the changing of jobs every 5 mi...What's up with the changing of jobs every 5 minutes McGee?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-18690593367738182472013-03-15T22:41:22.415+01:002013-03-15T22:41:22.415+01:00I'm very glad that you touched on this subject...I'm very glad that you touched on this subject, and I think that more people need to. It is true that the majority of these online attacks appear to be perpetrated by men, against women. And even some by groups against other groups. Perhaps somebody should do more research into the topic so that soon we can all have a better understanding and better ideas on what to do about this issue.Cheryl Anne Mollehttp://www.cherylannemolle.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-70119700001877355942013-02-27T20:09:22.368+01:002013-02-27T20:09:22.368+01:00It's obviously not a simple pattern, if that&#...It's obviously not a simple pattern, if that's even an accurate definition of the phenomena.<br />I'd like to propose an additional factor that may influence the "haters", and maybe someone could provide me with feedback?<br /><br />If I'm not mistaken, the target of the hate is perceived as an inanimate object aswell. The assumption is false, but empathy towards the target is disconnected to some degree, if the brain of the hater is not triggered to feel empathy by the 'avatar' of the target?<br /><br />The behaviour is rampant in online-gaming, maybe there's some correlation?`Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11069122523393748902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-46090737693644427472013-02-18T22:54:18.614+01:002013-02-18T22:54:18.614+01:00Actually the real problem is the ability to hide. ...Actually the real problem is the ability to hide. There is a bullshit article about me at sciam.com called "The Unethical Ethicist." The article was completely - I mean almost 100% - false and it nearly destroyed my career. But what made it so powerful was that 2 or 3 sockpuppets, easily distinguishable now but in the moment quite successful, piled one on top of another these vicious comments and of course explained why they had to be anonymous but provided no evidence of anything. Then when I tried to fight back I got crushed. Alice Dreger points to the real life consequences of sock puppetry. As much as I hate to point anybody to the garbage at SciAm.com, if you read the comments, then read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/17/nyregion/online-battle-over-ancient-scrolls-spawns-real-world-consequences.html?pagewanted=all I think you will come to the conclusion that there is something basically screwed up about the way that people conduct Internet bioethics, something basically obnoxious and hurtful that could never happen in peer reviewed journals or at least not so easily...and I'm not asking anybody to cry for me but you might notice that the minute I challenge someone's data - DATA - on the twittersphere regarding genetics or stem cells, I get (guess what) a long series of retweets to that same article and then a whole new set of sockpuppet comments and fake clicks to boost its Google rank. If you really dislike somebody, become a sock puppet. That seems to be the lesson. To be honest, the rest of the claims Christian is making go right over my head, though I respect his right to make them, and if you agree with him then God bless you...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09505754692247366492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-48695819451695934082013-02-17T22:54:13.844+01:002013-02-17T22:54:13.844+01:00"After all, most of us succeed in behaving pr..."After all, most of us succeed in behaving pretty ok on the internet, if nothing else because we take the effort of restraining ourselves." <br /><br />This assumes that without this effort, most of us will degenerate into the same non-ok behavior, which,I hope, is overly pessimistic view of human nature.<br /><br /> In my opinion, the cause of the hateful comments on Intranet is in its dual nature of the written media, which traditionally implies certain ethical standards, and de facto level of a shouting match, on some (make it many) sites. <br /><br />Personally, I do not think that any thought that is not expressed in polite, non-abusive language, deserves to be noticed.Laura Meyerovichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05306602925040193219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-46762435814764141492013-02-16T14:29:31.891+01:002013-02-16T14:29:31.891+01:00One further little thing: I never denied that RNL-...One further little thing: I never denied that RNL-E is "a research organisation", as you put it. It is, I'm sure. But it is also a limited company, whose executive officers are required by law (as is the default construction in every jurisdiction I know of) to promote the economic interests of its owners. In other words, legally and institutionally, RNL-E is for making money, just as any other business. It is, of course, for this very reason why it is of importance for people to know if anyone debating the sort of research in which this company is involved is atteched to this or any other business interest, representing national interests, acting from an academic platform, as a patient activist, and so on.Christian Munthehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03373442927438898939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-9556075867196205202013-02-16T14:18:38.153+01:002013-02-16T14:18:38.153+01:00My point is very simple: Just because you have mad...My point is very simple: Just because you have made the journey you have it is of the utmost importance to make crystal clear your role and what you represent when debating stem cell science or policy. In the debate over at the Lab Stem Cell Blog, this was the first thing I looked for, but in fact it is the blogmaster who provides the initial info re. your connection to RNL-E and the nature of its business in response to your comments, and then when a patient steps in to debate, you finally make it clear yourself at the end of a very long comment aimed at responding to her. This is very far from ok, and you know it. <br /><br />Otherwise, just one thing: if what you claim here about the relationship between RNL Europe and RNL Bio is true, I advise as CEO of the former to have Bloomberg's as well as a number of other business information services on the web providing information about RNL-E to correct their records. E.g. Bloomberg writes: "As of January 25, 2011, RNL Europe GmbH operates as a subsidiary of RNL Bio Co., Ltd." (see: http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=53608813). These are currently the only sources of info on RNL Europe in absence of a bona fide company webpage.Christian Munthehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03373442927438898939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-2865401887570477972013-02-16T13:37:53.080+01:002013-02-16T13:37:53.080+01:00I wrote the comment. Thank you for voicing your o...I wrote the comment. Thank you for voicing your opinion. I respectfully disagree but you certainly have every right to write anything you like, and to call me out if you think I am being dishonest, "scrubbing," or hawking things to the desperate & trying to drive up stock value. <br /><br />You're probably right that an argument of some kind could be made, albeit (in my view) as strained as one can get, that someday someone might profit from my profligate attempts to return the conversation to Paul's blog post after being slammed right and left in what can only be called hate tweets. I rather doubt it, not only because the mob that ensued certainly wouldn't pump up stock prices, but also because the article you read -- and I can't fault you for counting it as a good source -- is false. RNL Europe does not act as a subsidiary of RNL Bio. Its stock, as public record reveals plainly, is owned in the vast majority by others, and no stock is available to trade, and I own no equity, nor will I earn any under my contract, nor is my salary in any way tied to earnings, of which there are at present none. I also pointed out that RNL Europe GmbH is a research organization. What I didn't propound (but is true) is that no one receives any cells or banks any cells with RNL Europe GmbH, i.e., nobody to "hawk" to. Or that our research facility is 100% GMP certified, a much more difficult proposition in Germany than the US (because it is tied to the actual work you are doing, not just to the facility and equipment), and that just as I was 100% committed at Celltex to converting to clinical trials from the previous business model - and had no other responsibility - I am a CEO here with a clear research agenda that is in fact governed by so many layers of academic and governmental regulation that it dwarfs the FDA's rules. <br /><br />I apologize if you feel that I am naive to believe that any of this matters, and I recognize that in business (as in academic medical centers) the publicity and advances made and described (which I didn't) have a direct effect on potential income. At Penn, the rank of the school shot from 19 to 5 within 2 years after hiring Art Caplan. The promise of gene therapy, where I held my appointment as Asst Prof of Cellular and Molecular Engineering, attracted attention and funds. But really, check my record. Do you think ACT or Penn or Albany Med benefitted in $ from me? Did Celltex? <br /> I have acknowledged COI right and left. I'm not posting false or bad data. <br />I asked and ask again that you pull those numerous Twitter posts and consider your own dialog about online hate. Surely you see the cascade of attacks on my wife, me, and so forth that followed from people to whom you linked. <br /><br />I appreciate your asking me (in yet another twitter unfortunately) whether I actually wrote this tweet. But I'm disheartened at your view of me in the roles I took. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09505754692247366492noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-87613032201310285152013-02-16T12:58:32.068+01:002013-02-16T12:58:32.068+01:00Not sure this is really you, Glenn. That link you ...Not sure this is really you, Glenn. That link you provide via your name leads to a mere Google search on your name, nothing else. Anyone, including people who bear you ill will, could have done that. If this posting in your name is a fraud, let me know in a secure way, and I'll take it away immediately as I'm informed about it.<br /><br />For those of you who wonder who Glenn McGee is, he is a former bioethics scholar with (in his own words) multiple appointments, who is now CEO of the private adult stem cell company RNL Europe, a sub-business to the Korean RNL Bio: http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=53608813. <br /><br />What Glenn - if it is him - refers to here is a sarcastic comment that I made on twitter when posting a link to some contributions of Glenn to a heated discussion on the possible promises and perils of adult stem cell (alleged) therapies without declaring clearly and saliently either his own function or who he represents; that is the vested interests above mentioned company. The comment is here: https://twitter.com/christianmunthe/status/302426605064712192 (follow the link in the post and you see what inspired my comment).<br /><br />To this, Glenn posted a complaint on Twitter, as here making claims about falsehood and meanness. IF it is you commenting here, Glenn, you have perhaps seen that I have replied on twitter: http://twitter.com/christianmunthe, in spite of the fact that you don't allow me the courtesy of direct response, since you blocked me already when I tweeted Bloomberg Business News's outing of you in your new role as businessman (linked to above). <br /><br />After these responses from me, Glenn's original twitter complaint was deleted. Perhaps you want me to do same with this complaint here? You cannot scrub yourself here, but I'll be happy to oblige your wish - if only it arrives in a form where I can certify identity a bit better than here. <br /><br />So, in short, I hold that my claim was and is neither false and, in fact, not mean at all. You draw this sort of reaction upon yourself when you debate stem cell technology, especially of the sort where the company you are employed by, without clearly and saliently open by declaring who you are and what you represent. Do that, and I will find no reason to react, except against actual arguments if I find them faulty and relevant to my own fields of interest, of course. I have nothing against business interests voicing their views, unless they pretend to be something else or attempt to sneak in under the radar. Exposing such dirty tricks has nothing to do with what this blog post that you are commenting on is about. And I know that you know it.Christian Munthehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03373442927438898939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-88293359198097244682013-02-15T16:53:30.738+01:002013-02-15T16:53:30.738+01:00I find it mind-boggling that you would post this a...I find it mind-boggling that you would post this article and then write the twitter about me - completely false and utterly mean - without a shred of apology. I just cannot believe it.<br />-Glenn McGeeGlenn McGeehttp://glennmcgee.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-70083489434437538822013-02-10T21:40:56.888+01:002013-02-10T21:40:56.888+01:00Usually, I enjoy using the internet as an awesome ...Usually, I enjoy using the internet as an awesome sarcasm machine, to which I take nothing seriously and speak my mind. It's fun to see how uproarious people will become over any issue, especially now with the gun-control debate, though I know I shouldn't be pissing off people with guns. The important thing is to remember to never allow a nutjob to take away your sense of humor. You're gonna die some day, don't do such as a coward.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04876329261512484168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-65414966458908914442013-02-09T18:18:23.816+01:002013-02-09T18:18:23.816+01:00There's probably some truth to the claim that ...There's probably some truth to the claim that haters generally are people who responds to what they experience as a threat, not necessarily to themselves but to their world-view, or to a loss of what they hold to be a deserved or proper privilege. But, as you so rightly point out, having such a view on the role of women (and other groups) is a characteristic of an asshole, and posting hateful comments or sending hate mail is an asshole's response to the situation. <br />When it comes to the structural or economic theory, an interesting comparison can be drawn to hate crime studies. Economic deprivation theory was long held to be a major influence on the incidence of hate crime, but did not hold up to scrutiny. See Green, Glaser, Rich "From lynching to gay bashing: the elusive connection between economic conditions and hate crime." (1998) David Braxhttp://david.brax.nu/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6763377479629539589.post-64919658496625800292013-02-09T16:57:55.523+01:002013-02-09T16:57:55.523+01:00I believe that two additional aspects of "net...I believe that two additional aspects of "nethate" need to be accounted for: (1) the fact that most haters are men and that most of the hated are women and (2) the violently sexual nature of much of the hate. <br /><br />My unreflected thought on these aspects is that much of the most vitriolic "nethate" departs from a typical male frustration of feeling inferior to women. By being powerful and eloquent, these women make men with low socio-economic status feel emasculated. By creating a fantasy where they violently impose their masculinity on these women, they can feel that they can regain some of the power that a patriarchal society grants men and that these men feel entitled to. Just as rape is that fantasy come true, so is nethate.karimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16773805435942338192noreply@blogger.com